Question about User API, uploading from WordPress, and Podcast function

I burned the feed with Feedburner and now LibreTime has accepted the feed.

@djtonyz Very cool you took over the WordPress plugin! Being that it’s based on the Drupal Station module where I first connected with @robbt , I’m thinking there’s a good bit of overlap in terms of how we could integrate LibreTime into WordPress and Drupal.

Personally, I’d like to help enable LibreTime integration into both platforms. Would be cool if we already had a team of folks interested in getting this done.

Couple questions - would it make sense for there to be a LibreTime plugin (WordPress) and module (Drupal)? Are there people with interest/capacity to work on integration (develop, PM, docs, etc.) if there was a budget? If yes, possibly we could focus our efforts around some sort of open beta/service offering.

Does that kinda make sense?

Given that Internet broadcasters and LPFMs need to A. use LibreTime to manage their broadcasts and B. need to pass information back to WordPress regarding their show schedule, DJs, etc., I would say there certainly is a need. Now, I’m only one person with an opinion and no detailed market research, but it makes complete sense if you’re an independent station or webcaster with no web team, nor do you have the ability and resources to hire a team to develop this integration. There seems to be a lack of integration between automation software and WordPress. I’m going to assume it’s a resource issue and a knowledge issue, whereas there are no resources to throw at the problem and there is limited interest because the focus is on making the automation software better and not addressing distribution points for data outside of the core product.

And, LibreTime has no published API from which to pull data and get it into WordPress, so that makes LibreTime’s use with WordPress very limited, whereas I believe AirTime has some API calls to get data out and into WordPress.

So, yes, it certainly makes sense given how popular WordPress is (powers 32% of the entire web). Radio Station has a total of 67K downloads with about 250 active stations upgrading the plugin each time a new version is released.

The structure of Radio Station would certainly compliment a feed of data from LibreTime. So, part of the work is already done. Intergration with Radio Station as the preferred LibreTime plugin might be a path to consider, given that it’s already out there. But if LibreTime commiters chose to go down a path of an exclusive LibreTime open source WordPress plugin, that’s certainly a natural path to take.

Personally, I am not a developer. I’m a product manager, information architect, and lead user experience design in the WordPress universe. While I can read the code and understand functions, I just don’t have the time or bandwith to become a WordPress developer. It’s just not my core competency. I took over the plugin, as I see an opportunity to provide this resource to address a market need and keep it free. But I do have plans for a pro version too and like All in One SEO Pack or any good freemium plugin, I think free and pro is a model that serves all users. But if you cut it off - like any only Pro version, you don’t get the opportunity to introduce users to the plugin benefits and then move them into Pro at a later date.

So, in terms of what I can contribute is ideas, testing, and maybe documentation. But that’s as far as i can go given my personal situation at the moment. And, that’s extremely limiting right now. Just having these conversations is taking time away from monetizing my experience and taking care of my family. I’d love to have more time to dive into these things and help out, but I’m trying to solve client problems and just survive on a daily basis financially.

Taking over Radio Station is an attempt to find residual income beyond my agency model.

Thanks for all your input! As mentioned in this related discussion, we do already have some large organizations interested in using and/or supporting LibreTime. I think integration and support of plugins like Radio Station and the Drupal Station module (upgrade or total rewrite) could be sustained with a similar mix of crowdfunding, partnerships and services.

I’m less familiar with how WordPress developers are incentivized, but generally speaking, I think budgeting for a good PM and sustainer (fundraising, sponsor wrangling, managing crowdfunding campaigns etc) would enable development and maintenance of all the related plugins and integrations.

WordPress developers are generally incentivized through hourly client work or part time or full time agency or corporate work. If they are wise, then they will try and build a plugin or theme that serves a market need, so that they can find a path to residual revenue. Getting it out to market, growing usage, and then pivoting and adding a PRO version or some type of service where there’s a monthly subscription is where this has all gone. Matt Mullenweg, co-creator of WordPress (along with Mike Little) estimates the WordPress services and plugin/theme marketplace to be worth over US $1B and growing. Like any open source project, the incentive path to monetization is in becoming an expert in some aspect and then exploiting that expertise to generate income. Then splitting time between the free project and adding features or add-ons to the PRO version.

But, to your point in your first paragraph, there could certainly be a mix of support. I am actually planning my own Kickstarter campaign, so that we can build in the audio player integration with Radio Station, then get that out to market as a freemium plugin, whereas it accepts a file from shoutcast or icecast and then prints either the Show name or tracks into the player as they are added.

Once we get to that point, I think it’s a natural progression to make the integration with LibreTime and then I would, on my site and in the plugins read me and plugin page, recommend LibreTime as the primary radio station automation software for Radio Station. I am going to speaking to the developer helping me with Radio Station about all of this and get his input and feedback.

Compared to WordPress, Drupal is still just experimenting with models for funding contrib development. Over the past year more and more Drupal (and a few WordPress) projects are beginning to use Open Collective as it’s is one of the first to provide fiscal sponsorship for projects and teams.

On that note, have you considered creating a collective for Radio Station? For some of the same reasons outlined in this comment/discussion, a collective may provide some additional opportunities to collaborate and sustain development across complementary projects.

More info can be found on their new site for OSS projects (https://www.oscollective.org/) and a bunch of folks are collaborating and lurking in https://slack.opencollective.com/

No, I didn’t even know about this. I saw mention in these threads, but wasn’t aware I could participate and didn’t check into it given my more pressing responsibilities. So thanks for introducing me to the concept. I will dive into this now. Yes, it would be great if there could be some bridging of funds between complementary projects, for sure. I’ll take a look now.

Assuming the Drupal station module (see the requirements https://groups.drupal.org/node/220739) would need similar integration, is there/could there be a player that could customized to play well with Drupal and WordPress? If so, possibly there are ways to pool resources.

FWIW There has been some previous discussion on Custom audio players

Referencing this here as it’s related to WordPress. @djtonyz Not sure if you are with the site builders associated with these services.

In Drupal, that would be considered a distribution. There’s not one specifically for radio/podcasters, but we’re considering building on top of this one https://www.drupal.org/project/thunder

Are there preconfigured setups/themes for radio stations and podcasters available in WordPress?

Hi there I’m working with @djtonyz on the Radio Station plugin for WordPress, and just having a quick look at how we might integrate with LibreTime. I can see the show Schedule API docs at:
https://libretime.org/manual/exporting-the-schedule/
That seems straighforward enough. but I was wondering how to export the track information from within a show?
This issue seems to suggest there may be undocumented API for accessing some of that data can anyone clarify?

Hi @majick777 - This discussion on Planning out an API might be a good one to read over and possibly comment on. There’s also discussion about WordPress specific integration referenced above.

Were you able to set up the collective? If you had a chance to skim through recent discussions #communitymedia, you might see some additional overlap with Radio Station and WP integrations.

I found a single open source HTML5 sticky footer player out there with an MIT license.

This could possibly be improved upon. All the other HTML5 players I’ve found so far are not open source and are for sale on various sites like Code Canyon or through their developers own websites. I’m thinking that this player could potentially be the basis for both WordPress and Drupal players, given that it’s open source on the MIT license and can be adapted for both with attribution if the license provides for that. I’m not an expert here so it’s just a suggestion, but one possibly worth looking into.

Yes, OnAir2 is a major WordPress theme set up for radio stations and podcasters to use as their base theme. However, in the world of WordPress purity, OnAir2 overreaches by integrating custom post types, which should be left to plugins and not a theme, for then you’re stuck with the theme and it’s very difficult to move. My plan is to be theme agnostic, so that anyone can use Radio Station with WordPress and any theme they desire - especially page builders like Divi, Elementor, Avada, Make, and other popular frameworks. I would much rather stick to WordPress best intentions - leaving a theme for layout and style and leaving plugins for functionality. The plugin can then have add-ons to make them compatible with different theme frameworks, but the base concept is to make sure that we build it out with “blocks” which is where WordPress is headed and not tie those blocks to a theme, but to the plugin. Once you start building your core theme product out with all this functionality embedded into it, it makes it very difficult for any radio station that is currently using WordPress and a theme they are already backed into to use Radio Station. Why should they rebuild their entire website on a new theme when they can just get plugin functionality and style that. God bless OnAir2 and what they are doing, but that’s not my model. Better to be theme agnostic than bake yourself into a theme and force people into decisions that become major pain points, when they can just install and style a plugin that adopts the parent theme’s CSS.

I was not able to join the website you recommended, because there is a bug in the signup process and I couldn’t even register. I don’t know if it’s been resolved. I will have to look.

I checked out the following to get a feel for what comes with OnAir2 -

So a goal is to include similar features/functionality in https://wordpress.org/plugins/radio-station/

Or would that require packaging together Radio Station with other plugins?

I just tested https://opencollective.com/opensource/apply on a couple of browsers. Seemed to work.

If not, I’d def followup in the Open Collective #support channel.

Looks like there may be some cool ways to get contributor and sponsor support towards projects on Open Collective -

@paddatrapper I’m feeling like some LibreTimeOSS / WordPress collaboration will be taking place in Cape Town!

They recently fixed it after I reported it. So, I was able to sign up, but my project doesn’t have 100 stars yet on Github, so I’m kind of dead in the water with that process. I’m trying to marketing to my community to start the plugin on Git to get to 100.

My goal is to be a plugin only and theme agnostic.A plugin is an independent piece of software that can be added to any WordPress site. Radio Station first creates a CCK of Shows (in Drupal parlance). In WordPress parlance, a Drupal CCK is a WordPress CPT - a custom post type. The plugin creates “Shows” CPT. You then add a Show and it spawns a page for the Show with the meta data about the show. See https://netmix.co/radio-station-demo for a demo display. Click on a Show in the master schedule to see the Show page. The plugin also spawns “Widgets,” which are blocks for the website’s sidebar. There’s an upcoming show / DJ, an on-air show / DJ, and a current ly playing song widget (but that is a manual process of using the second CPT, “Playlists” to start manually creating playlists.

This plugin should and can be used with any WordPress theme. We are not planning on getting into theming. A radio station already has a website with a theme and they don’t care to change their entire theme (costly, especially if it’s custom) and go with an untested theme that is new. So, we are staying away from themes and we are ONLY a plugin and will always be such.

The goal is to sync the Libretime show schedule via API with Radio Station’s master schedule and that will trigger the pages in Shows to be generated for the user, as well. So, if they connect via API to Libretime, the show schedule they added to Libretime would automatically spawn a clone of that schedule in WordPress through the plugin. We discussed last night about Playlisting and realize that many shows can come in as Podcasts or blocks and aren’t just a bunch of songs compiled to make a Playlist in Libretime. I think if someone were to use the Playlist functionality in Libretime, then if there were an API, we could generate that playlist against that Show in WordPress.

Just to encapsulate all of this - if a radio station realized they have Libretime to run the station and Radio Station plugin to connect to Libretime and pull data automatically via API and publish it into WordPress for them, they’ve managed to win half the battle. The only issue would be that you’d have to make the distinct choice to use Libretime first and then connect to the plugin and that will push the setup process. So, on our side, we’d need to add a setup process if using Libretime.

If the user already has shows on the master calendar and then tries to connect with LibreTime, it may double up or impact the current show set in some way. We’d have to tell the user their calendar may have duplicates if they chose to set up schedules in both.

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