LibreTime Demo site

Several hosting options have been discussed in the libretime slack. @ned-kelly said he’d “be happy to look at seeing if we can get a free AWS (https://aws.amazon.com/government-education/nonprofits/) just to run build server etc.”

Does anyone have any objection to soliciting free hosting from AWS?

@hairmare

Just to be clear - As LibreTime is not a nonprofit company, we would need to be a project of a nonprofit to qualify? If we create OpenCollective to help sustain the project and community, I can help evaluate options such as Open Source Collective, Open Media Foundation, Kendraio, and other nonprofit organizations already set up to host projects.

Hi guys - Already submitted application to AWS And Openshift last night - They are both pretty flexible if you’re applying for 100% open source project (which Libretime is) and are only asking for a small amount of credits…

Re the Libretime being a non-profit - That’s a probably different discussion than getting some credits for a demo-site and something that AWS and the likes WILL require if we’re going to ask for many thousands of $$$ of credits worth from them (Or try and join their Activate program) - In the case of a demo server $150-$200 will be enough to run us a decent EC2 instance and the bandwidth for 12 months or so and should do the trick in the short-term.

If you want to look at moving forward as a Non-profit with OpenCollective that sounds good to me, however I’d be thinking that’s @robbt and company’s choice right?

so AWS doesn’t require us to show legal non-profit status as a condition of donating server space?

I’m not sure if we qualify for free AWS since there is no formal organizational structure (yet?). I might be able to get a privately sponsored Azure subscription if that would be of interest. My main issue with it is that setting it up in a secure way will also need quite some engineering effort.

As noted above, there are a couple nonprofit options we could explore via OpenCollective.

so my understanding from Nedś research is that getting a demo site up and running on AWS server with decent resources is going to require some non-profit paper pushing.

and @hairmare’s “quite some engineering effort” comment makes me not want to go the Azure route.

regardless of server/legal stuff, it makes sense to table this one:
"Someone will need to write a script to redeploy the Demo on a clean slate on a regular basis. It also could be a liability for the project if there are undiscovered security issues in LibreTime and/or giving people access to the server. Basically we would need someone to bottom line the deployment on AWS and write a script that wipes the server or simply deploys a fresh server and runs the install script and sets up the accounts etc. It’d also be helpful to have sample calendar and tracks and smartblocks etc.
I don’t think the demo site is a high priority until we have someone interested in being in charge of it. Maybe once we are at least considering the project beta and getting ready for a real release it would make more sense. "

If you are still looking for a place for a demosite, I am willing to host it. I am running 7 instances here already in lxc on a Proxmox server. And in front of those Libretime servers I use a NGinx reverse proxy.
I run this for my radiostation Pure Radio Holland and we have 7 channels. This a link to one of the LibreTimes. https://www.airtime.underground.pureradio.eu and I did a few changes to the install script myself to our needs.

Not to sound like a broken record of nostalgia, but I should point out that the way Nullsoft’s dev team promoted SHOUTcast technology was by having each of the team members run a stream, each of a different genre. Worked like a charm. This is how we ended up with classic streams like Tag’s Trance Trip and BlueMars which lasted for over a decade. They were so popular they formed their own independent fan bases which carry the torch to this day.

So, running a team-run radio station? I’m all for it. Let’s be scrappy and start with a simple 6 buck a month streaming server and scale up as needed. We wouldn’t need more than 25 concurrent listeners to start out. 64kbps dynamic bitrate OGG. We’d just bypass any bells and whistles they offered by using our own LibreTime server and shoot the mix up to the streamer as a relay.

The bandwidth for the LibreTime server would be so negligible that any of us could volunteer a personal machine for it to function. Hell, I’ll even offer mine. I’ve done it before, I’ll do it again.

We’d set up scheduled shows, each have a team member do a minimum 1-hour live show a week, and that way we can actually use this software in a collaborative environment, and open it up for guest spots from the broader community.

The Libretime Community Access Radio Server (Yes, that spells LCARS for you Star Trek fans out there.)

A LibreTime radio station sounds like a great idea, but probably would be in addition to a demo site? With regards to hosting, it looks like DigitalOcean provides server resources for similar OSS projects like AzuraCast https://www.azuracast.com/about/#friends-of-azuracast

Might be worth seeing if they’d sponsor LibreTime?

Either way, we should be able use https://opencollective.com/libretime to offset any hosting cost. Especially if LibreTime radio provides opportunities to credit sponsors and backers!

I’m feeling that a community radio station is worthy of its own thread, even though it’s related to demonstrating the technology. If this really becomes a thing, it would probably warrant a dedicated forum topic.

I’m in total agreement when it comes to having a sandbox demo installed for random users to poke around with. Such a thing would really need an icecast server connected to it, but I’m reckoning it should be restricted in time and listener count. I can already imagine how it could be abused.

Possibly we could include LibreTime radio in a beta?

I like the idea of a team-managed instance, but it performs a different function to a demo site. The demo allows potential users to try out LT so that they can evaluate if it works for what they need. A team-managed stream doesn’t allow this, rather it just demonstrates that the team has good tastes in music :slight_smile:

I have space/resources in a server and I can set it up there. All I would need afterwards would to have demo.libretime.org pointed there I guess.

I would like it to be a Debian 10 vps (I’m currently running 5 LT instances on that setup), but I’m fine with any.

@k054 that would be great if you’re open to running that. The thing I’m concerned with is how to reset the instance regularly to some known base state. That way users can test, but there are no lasting changes that could cause issues

I think we can just create some demo content and cat demo-condent.sql | mysql libretime to restore it via cronjob once a week or something.

Would it make sense to see if Digital Ocean could provide a similar setup like they do for AzuraCast? AzuraCast Docs | AzuraCast Docs

There may some additional marketing/partnership benefits if we went that route. I believe setup and maintenance could still be a separate expense whoever is doing it could be reimbursed for (if needed). Seems like that would be one of the more straightforward costs in OpenCollective Spending Proposal - #13 by paddatrapper

1 Like

I really don’t mind where it’s hosted but I don’t have the time/energy to figure out what does it take for DO to provide that, and I know I can deploy a vm in our server in less than a minute (we have a fai server for that).

If you want to reach DO and ask I’m perfectly fine. All we would need is ssh access and root privileges.

1 Like

I’m asking around just to see what Digital Ocean might be able to provide to projects using Open Source Collective as their fiscal host/sponsor.

I’m sure the decision-makers are totally good w/ you hosting on your server if that’s easier. Seems like sponsor credit would be a good way to reciprocate on top of reimbursement for associated costs.

1 Like

FWIW I’m having some asynchronous conversation with the head of product at Open Collective about leveraging their nonprofit entity (which in turn is LibreTime’s entity) for free tiers and discounts.

We’re agreeing that a project like LibreTime could list Open Source Collective 501c6 in their application (if needed) and they wouldn’t really need to go beyond that…like brokering special deals on behalf of the 2500+ that use them for fiscal sponsorship.

The problem is it takes a lot of time for a project like LibreTime to just search around for vendors offering free tiers and discounts.

The solution would be if OpenCollective provided a searchable marketplace where projects tapped for resources (like LibreTime) could find what they need.

Again this wouldn’t be relevant if @k054 is providing the demo site (we just need to make sure the Governance and spending policy covers all associated costs.

It could be if LibreTime would like additional tools like the ones AzuraCast is using.

1 Like